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A fictional cop's perspective
#11
(07-29-2017, 02:55 PM)susnus Wrote: hey! Desk is just speaking of her experience. Why, some of those dozen or so LEOs have apparently been voting for Trump over the last 10 years.  ;-)

haha

Hey, maybe they voted for Obama too.
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#12
And of course what I was saying is that they express the view that there should be no gun control over who can buy guns, or very few rules. Not that they voted for Trump for ten years.
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#13
(07-29-2017, 02:54 PM)PleaseReportToTheFrontDesk Wrote: You're jumping to conclusions. Apparently it bothers you to be told that all the cops I've ever talked to ONLINE have expressed that opinion. It is not saying I think all cops hold the same opinion. However, it's a fact that all the cops I've ever talked to about it online have expressed that opinion. One has to wonder then why the ones who feel differently have never expressed that opinion on the sites I've visited and threads I've participated in on the topic of gun control. 

Those are facts, not conclusions regarding every cop in America.

No jumping, you led me to my conclusion here:

" I would love to believe it, but every cop I ever talk to... online or anywhere... defends gun rights and votes for Trump.

It bothers me when someone doesn't look at both sides of the equation, yet proclaims to believe just one side. If you meant to say something else, well, maybe that's just because of your "old age". I get it. 
Here's something that might broaden your thinking on the subject-hope it helps:

https://www.quora.com/Are-most-cops-in-the-U-S-Democratic-or-Republican
There are many more out there for you to peruse. It's pretty likely, being in a union, they vote Democrat. I don't think the police are quite as clannish as the firefighters however. 

Here's a link re: gun control and law enforcement-its a couple of years old, so I don't know if it's changed much, if any. http://www.npr.org/2015/10/09/446866939/...ficers-too
Civil disobedience is patriotic 
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#14
My first instinct is to get the guns off the streets, Second Amendment be damned, er, amended.  But then I think how exactly would we go about putting the toothpaste back in the tube?  There are just so many damn guns out there, in the hands of responsible people, irresponsible people, criminals, law abiding folks, damn, just about everyone has one and some of us have more than we can count.  (I have none, btw)  The government doesn't have a clue who has them and there is no reasonable way to get that information.  

Basically, living in a free society comes with certain risks.  There's a crazy guy walking down the street and because being crazy isn't against the law, we let him be.  Until one day he goes off and does harm to others.  But prior to that act, he has every right to be crazy and walk down the street.  We just assume a certain risk that this might be the day he goes off.  Or it could be tomorrow or maybe never.  He has rights and we have to assume certain risks.  The same is true with guns.  In a free society, we take risks that harm may come our way by way of a gun.  Or not.  But in that free society, we assume a certain risk.
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."   George Orwell    
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#15
The second amendment, and the 4th and the 5th amendment all protect gun ownership.  I think any one of them protects citizens rights to own a gun, which is property and cant be taken away without due process of law.

If you go to work afraid of the job, we aren't going to change the constitution, You need a different job.  I expect a cop to properly access the situation and respond in a way that serves the community.

I rarely interact with the police, but I had a chance to spend a little time with them yesterday, I have am proud of our police department here because they are an intelligent force.  They handled what could have been a very tense situation with calm efficiency.  In fact, If I were to critique the job our police force did, I would only ding them for turning their back on me where I could easily take their weapon from the holster before they could stop me.  While I was probably deemed no threat to them, it was still a small lapse that in another situation could put the officer in danger.  Most people wouldn't notice, but someday the wrong person might.  I think this is a good example of a lapse in training, and such lapses in training are often the root cause of a cop or an innocent person being shirt.

I've noticed in the last decade that people are willing to surrender their rights to further their cause.  We see it in universities when speakers are prevented to speaking, we see it in praise for what appears to be excessive force used by police, and we see it for people that have been taught to fear an armed society,   Yes there is violence and guns are a lazy way to be violent, so they are the American way.  But in several decades of life I've never been in the proximity of such violence and so while I believe it exists, I don't see that it exists to the point where rights to gun ownership should be curbed.
Winner.
Winner.

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#16
Yep, and the worst of the lot are the politicians with guns. They killed about 100 million in the 20th century alone. There is a substantial list of socialists, communists, fascists, and dictators.  Do you have any figures on how many NRA members were as accomplished as the socialist/communist/ heroes like Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Che Quervera, and Castro?   

(07-27-2017, 10:11 PM)rockchalker52 Wrote: Don Winslow is one of my all-time favorite novelists.  He can craft a story, build suspense, and draw you into his fictional worlds as well as anyone I've ever read.  To date I've read the following list of his books:
  • 1991: A Cool Breeze on the Underground (Neal Carey Mysteries)

  • 1992: The Trail to Buddha's Mirror (Neal Carey Mysteries)

  • 1993: Way Down on the High Lonely (Neal Carey Mysteries)

  • 1994: A Long Walk Up the Water Slide (Neal Carey Mysteries)

  • 1996: While Drowning in the Desert (Neal Carey Mysteries)

  • 1997: The Death and Life of Bobby Z

  • 1999: California Fire and Life

  • 2008: The Dawn Patrol (Boone Daniels Series)

  • 2009: The Gentlemen's Hour (Boone Daniels Series)

  • 2010: Savages[9]

  • 2011: Satori

  • 2015: The Cartel  (purchased but not yet read)

  • 2017: The Force (currently reading)
It is his latest effort "The Force" and, within it, a fictional cop's outlook about guns on the street that made me think the following excerpt would make a good topic for our Lundy readership to consider.  Be advised there is a small amount of 'language' involved:

"Guns and dope are the soup and sandwich of American crime.  As much as the Job is obsessed with heroin, it's more obsessed with getting guns off the street.  And for good reason - it's the cops who have to deal with the murders, the wounded, cops who have to tell the families, work with them, try to get them some justice.  

And, of course, it's guns on the street that kill cops.  

The NRA assholes will tell you that "guns don't kill people, people do."  Yeah, Malone thinks, people with guns.

Sure, you have stabbings, you have fatal beatings, but without guns the homicide figures would be negligible.  And most of the congressional whores who go to their NRA meeting smelling nice and wearing something frilly have never seen a gunshot homicide or even a person who's been shirt.  

Cops have.  Cops do.  

It ain't pretty.  It don't look or sound (or smell) anything like in the movies.  These asshats who think that the answer is to arm eveeryone so they could, for instance, shoot it out in a dark theater have never had a gun pointed at them and would sh*t themselves if they did.  

They say it's all about the Second Amendment and individual rights but what it's about is the money.  The gun manufacturers, who make up the vast bulk of the NRA's funding, want to sell guns and make their cash.  

End of motherfucking story.

New York City has the strictest gun laws in the country but that doesn't make any difference because all the guns come from the out side up the "Iron Pipeline."  Dealers make straw purchases in states with weak gun laws - Texas, Arizona, Alabama, the Carolinas - and then bring them up I-95 to the cities of the Northeast and New England.  

The goobers love to talk about crime in the big cities, Malone thinks, but either don't know or don't care that the guns come from their states.  

To date, at least four New York cops have been killed with guns that came up the Iron Pipeline.  

Not to mention the corner boys and the bystanders.  

The mayor's office, the department, everyone is desperate to get guns off the streets.  The job is even buying them back - a no-questions-asked cash-and-gift-card offer: you bring in your guns, we smile at you and give you $200 bank cards for handguns and assault rifles and $25 for rifles, shotguns and BB guns.

The last buyback, at the church over on 129th and Adam Clayton Powell, netted forty-eight revolvers, seventeen semiautomatic pistols, three rifles, a shotgun and an AR-15.

Malone has no problem with it.  Guns off the streets are guns off the streets, and guns off the streets help a cop achieve job number one - go home at the end of shift.  One of the old hairbags taught him that when he first came on the Job - your first job is to go home at the end of shift."
- Don Winslow

* * *

What's your take on this fictional cop's take about the perils of guns on the street?
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#17
(07-28-2017, 07:54 PM)autie Wrote: What we have here is the white to bear arms.  BullWayne La Pierre will tell us to get guns and God ordained it and we should be armed so we can defend ourselves from.......something.  Unless.  And if you fall into the unless zone you don't count.  If you are black and have a gun under the second amendment and qualify for conceal you may be shirt dead for being black.  It happens.  We most certainly live in a country in which color dictates your rights as spelled out in the constitution.  The ten amendments are foremost.  If you are black or brown in 
America, you are not covered as much because of attitudes like agent99 and BAA and KG.

Quote:If you are black or white and have a gun under the second amendment and qualify for conceal you may be shirt dead for being black committing a gun crime.  It happens.

Fixed it for ya'.   Big Grin  No thanks necessary.
"you can give-up, give-in, or you can give it all ya' got!"
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#18
Quote:Yep, and the worst of the lot are the politicians with guns. They killed about 100 million in the 20th century alone. There is a substantial list of socialists, communists, fascists, and dictators.  Do you have any figures on how many NRA members were as accomplished as the socialist/communist/ heroes like Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Che Quervera, and Castro?   


According to our leftist neighbors that doesn't count MLM.
"you can give-up, give-in, or you can give it all ya' got!"
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#19
One more thought on this second amendment thing; this civil right of all lawful US citizens. 
Sensible Gun Control  
 
In 1865 a Democrat shirt and killed Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States.
 
In 1881 a left wing radical Democrat shirt James Garfield, President of the United States, who later died from the wound.
 
In 1963 a radical left wing socialist shirt and killed John F. Kennedy, President of the United States.
 In 1975 a left wing radical Democrat fired shots at Gerald Ford, President of the United States.
In 1983 a registered Democrat shirt and wounded Ronald Reagan, President of the United States.
In 1984 James Hubert, a disgruntled Democrat, shirt and killed 22 people in a McDonalds restaurant.
In 1986 Patrick Sherrill, a disgruntled Democrat, shirt and killed 15 people in an Oklahoma post office.
In 1990 James Pough, a disgruntled Democrat, shirt and killed 10 people at a GMAC office.
In 1991 George Hennard, a disgruntled Democrat, shirt and killed 23 people in a Luby's cafeteria in Killeen, TX .
 In 1995 James Daniel Simpson, a disgruntled Democrat, shirt and killed 5 coworkers in a Texas laboratory.
In 1999 Larry Asbrook, a disgruntled Democrat, shirt and killed 8 people at a church service.
 In 2001, a left wing radical Democrat, fired shots at the White House in a failed attempt to kill George W. Bush, President of the USA.
In 2002, Beltway sniper John Allen Muhammad, murdered 10 innocent people at random, another disgruntled muslim democrat.
In 2003 Douglas Williams, a disgruntled Democrat, shirt and killed 7 people at a Lockheed Martin plant.
 In 2007, a registered Democrat, named Seung - Hui Cho, shirt and killed 32 people in Virginia Tech.
 In 2010, a mentally ill registered Democrat, named Jared Lee Loughner, shirt Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and killed 6 others.
In 2011, a registered Democrat named, James Holmes, went into a movie theater and shirt and killed 12 people.
 In 2012 Andrew Engeldinger, a disgruntled Democrat, shirt and killed 7 people in Minneapolis.
In 2013, a registered Democrat, named Adam Lanza, shirt and killed 26 people in a school in Newtown, CT.
As recently as Sept 2013, an angry Democrat shirt 12 at a Navy ship yard.
Clearly, there is a problem with Democrats and guns.
In 2017, another registered demorat, and typical union socialist hack, targeted and shirt at a group of US congressman.
Finally, look at the number of murders in Chicago: 98% of the perps vote demorat. Is there a trend here?
 
Not one NRA member, Tea Party member, or Republican conservative was involved in any of these shootings and murders.
 
SOLUTION: It should be illegal for Democrats to own guns.
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#20
Now we know why cops tell us to purchase a gun and learn to handle it safely.  We need to protect ouselves against hostile Dims.  

I noticed that you omitted Black Lives Matter in your list.  They advocate for violence and the assassination of policemen.  Pretty sure they're Dims since 'Bummer had them to the White House several times.
"you can give-up, give-in, or you can give it all ya' got!"
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