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Poll: Should the administrator be allowed to "hellban" users that persistently and grievously break the rules of the forum?
Yes
No
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Persistant Personal Attacks
#1
Equals

http://mods.mybb.com/view/hellban

Just for a little while, a few days, you will probably never know I did it.   Think of it as me putting you on everyone's ignore list except mine and yours.

This generated enough interest that I'm going to add a poll above.

Number Two makes the following statement below:
Quote:But hellbanning is "banning" and it is in essence "removing the post" before its out there. 

No posts will be removed.  It's really a parlor trick.  The posts remain.  I could probably reply to them and keep them thinking they are live for a while.  In the meantime, I can ease up any personal insults they have, then flick the switch and they are back and I think all their posts will come back too.  I sort of tried it out on L275, who is me as a regular user, and it seemed to work but I don't know for certain if the posts remain.  I'll find out this weekend and let you know.  Hellbanning yourself and making the posts then unhellbanning yourself and then looking for the posts to see if they are still there takes time.  It involves a lot of me talking to myself so I'll not take my medication that day and call it a vacation.

 

 

 

 
Winner.
Winner.

Chicken Dinner.


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#2
Just like LJW? Your sandbox, but the kitty is going to start leaving treats.
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#3
Nah, not like LJW.   I'm surprised you would equate me with the brain-dead moderators at LJW.  That was just mean.

But I have to do something to stop the personal attacks on other members.  If you have a better idea, let's hear it.  I'm open to all ideas except deleting posts and banning users.  

Your sandbox, BTW.  I don't even get involved unless a post is reported and I try to be as noninvasive as possible.

Number Two, you hurt my feelings.  [img]images/smilies/sad.gif[/img]

 
Winner.
Winner.

Chicken Dinner.


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#4
But hellbanning is "banning" and it is in essence "removing the post" before its out there. The attacks aren't that bad. It has gotten better and will continue to get better now that Jessamine isn't bullying me anymore. If she can change then there is hope for the others. All hellbanning will do is drive someone to create another profile. LJW used to "hellban" users so I'm just listing an example where it didn't really do much but further antagonize the offender.

We should ALL just try to be a little more courteous, realize exactly what Iamme has been writing in his discussions with Jafs, that is to be tolerant of the others beliefs, no matter how wrong they are. Let old rivalries be put aside, don't post something to deliberately agitate, try giving a little commentary to why it is important to post.



 
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#5
Ok I came back to this for the third time & I don't wanna open an unwanted can of worms, but I feel compelled to say there are different styles & intensities of personal attacks. For instance, I agree with Number Two's sentiments but raised an eyebrow when I read the passive-aggressive "It has gotten better now that Jessamine isn't bullying me anymore.  If she can change..."  

At best  that's a backhanded compliment.  As a supposed proponent (word for the day, apparently) of civil discourse, Two couldn't let it slide that he felt bullied in the past by an ideological opponent.  Hey, it's not horrible & Jess prolly don't care, but sometimes subtle insinuations are just as irksome as a straight out insult.  

Looking forward to to continued interaction with ALL of you.

 
Load me into a cannon & shoot me into the sun! - Dow Joans
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#6
Rockchalker52, exactly why I posted it, it was an "irksome" comment, where does it stop and what constitutes an insult. I really do respect Jessamine and didn't think she'd take offense to the sentiment. I was hoping Jessamine would have picked it up first and commented. The line between insult and fun is often misunderstood. Some of the banter would appear to new members or observers as hateful or combative when in fact some of it has been developed over years of participating on the LJW. I started on LJW in 2005 by invitation from a friend. Over that time I have come to know many here and generally know what I can and cannot say to them, and some I am still learning.

Part of the draw to this blog is the outlandish behavior, it may drive a few away and it draws a few in. We have been very good about leaving most derogatory comments out. I can enjoy a civil discussion with any member here except one. But even that one I can leave alone and ignore, but it is my choice to do so and his, a truce.


Passive aggressive? Come on! Should I take the following comment as a slight?  "As a supposed proponent (word for the day, apparently) of civil discourse..."  We can knit-pick every post until the cows come home to nest. [img]images/smilies/confused.gif[/img]
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#7
'Number Two dateline='' Wrote: Rockchalker52, exactly why I posted it, it was an "irksome" comment, where does it stop and what constitutes an insult. I really do respect Jessamine and didn't think she'd take offense to the sentiment. I was hoping Jessamine would have picked it up first and commented. The line between insult and fun is often misunderstood. Some of the banter would appear to new members or observers as hateful or combative when in fact some of it has been developed over years of participating on the LJW. I started on LJW in 2005 by invitation from a friend. Over that time I have come to know many here and generally know what I can and cannot say to them, and some I am still learning.

Part of the draw to this blog is the outlandish behavior, it may drive a few away and it draws a few in. We have been very good about leaving most derogatory comments out. I can enjoy a civil discussion with any member here except one. But even that one I can leave alone and ignore, but it is my choice to do so and his, a truce.


Passive aggressive? Come on! Should I take the following comment as a slight?  "As a supposed proponent (word for the day, apparently) of civil discourse..."  We can knit-pick every post until the cows come home to nest. [img]images/smilies/confused.gif[/img]


 
If I have changed, my friend, so have you:-). I respect you, too N#2. We wouldn't be in this place if we hadn't put out a sincere effort.

Outlandish behavior can be had without the name calling, don't you agree?  There are only two posters here who use those juvenile tactics.  The only reason this is happening is because of at least, one of those posters.  Bad apple and all that.  

This is just my humble opinion, but Iamme is full of it when it comes to understanding others and communicating instead of controlling.  Not that this is bad, we all have different styles, of course, but don't put him on a dais, por favor.  


 

 
Civil disobedience is patriotic 
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#8
Long day at work, sorry.
Quote:Just like LJW? Your sandbox, but the kitty is going to start leaving treats.

The thought struck me that I really like that.  I pushed a little and you pushed back.  Number Two, thank you.
Quote:We should ALL just try to be a little more courteous, realize exactly what Iamme has been writing in his discussions with Jafs, that is to be tolerant of the others beliefs, no matter how wrong they are. Let old rivalries be put aside, don't post something to deliberately agitate, try giving a little commentary to why it is important to post.

We are in full agreement.  However, when posters continue to use the lousy tactic of personally attacking other members, I have to do something.  Sure, I can keep editing posts, but I hate doing that.  I'm just trying to prod everyone into stopping the personal attacks the best way I know of at this stage.  

Everyone, if you won't listen to me, listen to Number Two.  He has a higher rep than I do, so he must be doing something right.
Quote:but raised an eyebrow when I read the passive-aggressive "It has gotten better now that Jessamine isn't bullying me anymore.  If she can change..."  

I'm not so much bothered by passive aggressive behavior.  I know this will sound silly, but a passive aggressive attack is often well thought out and shows some wit.   I don't presume to speak for Jessamine, but I think she can appreciate the comedy in Two's post.   He has a pretty good sense of humor.
Quote:where does it stop and what constitutes an insult.

I have to make that decision.  I will be happy to explain to the last period any step I take in moderating.  I'm not an invisible hand.  If anyone believes they are treated unfairly, PM me.
Quote:The only reason this is happening is because of at least, one of those posters.  Bad apple and all that.  
Jess, you are one of our rocks.  However, members here are not apples, the are fellow members.  None are bad.  I think some may use ineffective and offensive means of arguing sometimes, but they still have a legitimate voice - they just needs more self-restraint to fit into the community.  They will get there with our help.  I believe You and Number Two are wonderful examples of adversaries that disagree very well, yet in a civilized and pleasant manner.

Please keep in mind, I am one of you, trying to let you do what you want while trying to keep the forum from turning hateful.  I don't want rules, I don't want to make people follow rules, but we are a community and I have to try and keep that community happy.

 
Winner.
Winner.

Chicken Dinner.


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#9
This is a perfect example of why libertarianism is hard to apply to communities.

We have a diverse group of people with diverse standards and preferences, so there may not be a communal agreement - at best you could get a majority opinion.  But, libertarians don't like the idea of a majority imposing it's will on the minority.

So, how do you resolve the issue?  The ignore feature seems to work fine for some, but apparently others aren't satisfied with it?

In my experience with communal experiments, without rules, generally the louder and less considerate people dominate, and the quieter more pleasant ones suffer in silence or leave the group.  I lived in a co-op dorm in college where this happened a lot, because the make up changed over time.  For a while, we had a nice group and things worked well, and then we got a different group and it was much less pleasant.  I remember the smokers (I would have preferred a completely non smoking environment, of course) who continued to put their cigarettes out in drinking glasses, even when there were ashtrays around, and they'd been asked numerous times to stop doing that.

Seems to me that rules and enforcement of them are necessary in order to prevent that kind of thing.  For example, if we had had a no smoking rule, that would have solved/prevented that problem.



 

 
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#10
~~Outlandish behavior can be had without the name calling, don't you agree?  There are only two posters here who use those juvenile tactics.  The only reason this is happening is because of at least, one of those posters.  Bad apple and all that

Word.
verum tuae sui
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